Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol

I have used your wrist protocol from 'The Carpal Tunnel Treatment That Works' for the 2nd day, taking care to dip my arms every 10 minutes and then doing DVD secrets edited out.


Having had tendonitis in my left wrist for 18+ months I have no delusions of a quick fix.

I have been to an orthopedic surgeon who after an MRI finds no medical reason for my wrist pain.

My sense is that after 2 days my wrist pain is somewhat subdued. I am optimistic.

I have been performing the protocol over the 2 hour period, from about 7am - 9am. My wrist feels pretty good after the routine.

However, by late afternoon 2pm on the wrist gets more tender, sensitive and painful.

What would you recommend?

Would it hurt to do the edited out, and edited out in the afternoon without the ice dip?

Would it hurt to do the wrist protocol again?

Should I just be patient and let contiguous days pass of doing the protocol until my wrist pain really subsides?


--

Joshua Answers

Hey there.

First off, I'm all for quick fixes. It's just that there's too many things that promise them but don't deliver.

I'm so pleased you are following the protocol from the DVD.

It's not an instant fix, but as there are no magic bullets, it is still pretty quick. 18 months or 18 years, you can do A LOT in a week or two.

And, those are all great questions. I'm happy to answer them, and I have a challenge for you.

1. No, it wouldn't hurt to do The Healthy Wrist Protocol twice a day (just make sure you don't overdo the other options. Ice Dipping you can do as much as you want of).

2. No, it wouldn't hurt to do those other two things you mentioned and not the Ice Dip. Again, just make sure you don't overdo it. Gentle and repetitive is the key.

3. Should you just follow the recipe and let it do it's thing? Yes and no.

Here's the challenge:

Follow the recipe exactly for 7 days. See what happens.

Then, you'll have some experience knowing how the amount you did (in ratio to the time you did it) benefits you.

Then you can do more or less, as desired.

You make a good point about patience.

You -could- do a lot more. The more the merrier (especially Ice Dipping).
And you could -probably- get a lot more results a lot faster. (You almost certainly would.)

AND, it takes some time for your body to shift itself. I don't know if faster results is necessarily better.

Ultimately, the shift needs to happen. The danger of getting out of pain -too- fast, is that you'll think you're all good, but your body won't have shifted enough to provide real lasting results.

So, the challenge is to be patient and just follow the recipe. What you will learn from that is, in my opinion, more valuable in the long run that getting out of pain faster.

So do that for 5 more days.

In the meantime, I'm curious.

1. You've been in pain for 18 months. Tell me about that. Did it come on fast, or slow? Were you totally pain free 19 months ago?

2. Say a little more about what the doctor said, and what s/he did to come to that conclusion.

It's possible you don't have actual tendonitis tendon damage, so much as you had a little damage once, and now are locked into Inflammation and The Pain Causing Dynamic.

Maybe both. Maybe other elements at play.

3. Do you have any other pain, in the arm/shoulder/neck/back?

4. You just have symptoms on the left wrist? What exactly are the symptoms, and are they constant? come and go? What aggravates, what makes better?

5. Where exactly does it hurt? Where on the wrist? Diffuse, all over, different spots? Palm side, back of the hand side? Forearm? Thumb pad?

6. What activities do you do with your hands?

If you're willing to answer the questions, I'm willing to help you figure out what exactly you have going on, and work with you till we have it handled.

If not, follow the Healthy Wrist Protocol from the DVD, and it will do wonders if you stick with it.




Joshua Tucker, B.A., C.M.T.
The Tendonitis Expert
www.TendonitisExpert.com














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Comments for Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol

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Mar 26, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 2 - Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

1. You've been in pain for 18 months. Tell me about that.

No, it didn't come on fast. I first noticed wrist pain while practicing my golf swing.

At the time I felt that I had just overdone the practice sessions. Backing off did seem to make the pain subside, but not totally go away.

Also during the same timeframe I started working with a personal trainer who started by focusing on core strengthening. I work out aerobically and up until my wrist pain got too severe with a variety of free weights shown to me by the trainer.

Along the way the wrist pain has gotten progressively worse. About 1 year ago I visited an Orthopedist who recommended and adimnistered a shot of cortizone. The pain went down but not completely.

Around this time the trainer started giving me a series of exercise ball exercises that had me planking out in a push up position. I believe those exercises helped to increase the pain intensity.

In October the pain became intense. I saw a 2nd Orthopedist who felt I had Dequervains Tendinitis. He recommended a 2nd cortizone shot as a way to confirm his diagnosis.

He was prepared to do surgery if the shot was not effective. He advised not to get occupational therapy. I went for therapy anyway and began ultrasound therapy and received a hand brace.

With little progress I went to a 3rd hand surgeon who recommended an MRI. That surgeon was very direct in saying he saw no medical reason for my wrist pain and therefore would not recommend surgery.

He did find a mild ligament tear on the back of my hand which he assured me could not be causing my wrist pain. He recommended I continue with the ultrasound.





2. Say a little more about what the doctor said, and what s/he did to come to that conclusion.

See above.

That would be consistent with the feeling of the hand surgeon.




3. Do you have any other pain, in the arm/shoulder/neck/back?

Yes, you should know that I have always had poor posture going back to my teenage years. I am now 52.

My trainer has been working hard to strengthen my upper back and abdomen in an effort to bring my shoulder back into line. That said my upper back between my shoulder blades has always been prone to be tight and painful. Also, my neck has been painful for some time when I stretch by turning my head from side to side.

I feel as though this pain has increased since starting your protocol. The pain is not debilitating but there is tightness and strain.

I should also say that I had shoulder pain, but the trainer gave me a series of exercises with 10lb dumbbells that over a couple of months solved the shoulder pain.

Mar 26, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 3 - Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

4. You just have symptoms on the left wrist?

As I said above I do have some pain from the mild ligament tear on the back of my left hand. And, there is the back pain.




What exactly are the symptoms, and are they constant? come and go? What aggravates, what makes better?

The symptoms are a sharp pain on the inside of my left wrist where the base of the thumb connects to the wrist.

There is always a dull ache at rest and then sharp pain from wrist motions that cause twisting.

For example placing my left palm on my left chest always causes a sharp pain. The worst pain is caused when a twisting motion is combined with lifting. For example I have a dog. Trying to lift the dog by wrapping my left hand under his rib cage is so painful I can barely lift his weight off his front paws.




5. Where exactly does it hurt? Where on the wrist? Diffuse, all over, different spots? Palm side, back of the hand side? Forearm? Thumb pad?

The pain emanates from a focused point at the base of my thumb. It radiates from there and tends to feel as though it wraps around my wrist as the pain worsens.




6. What activities do you do with your hands?

I do a lot of touch typing. And, lately I find that typing in long stretches does make the wrist ache more. For example the 15 mins it has taken to write this response has bothered my wrist.

I hope you find this more detailed response helpful. I do look forward to any additional recommendations you may have.

In the interim I continue the protocol as you defined it. Today 3/26/09 was day 3. As I said earlier the wrist pain has lessened somewhat. I have not worn the wrist brace since yesterday.

But, the wrist is far from healthy. I am very serious about getting my wrist fully operational.

Thank you.
Apr 02, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		Part 4 Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

I have been diligently using the healthy wrist protocol for the last 8 days. The good news is that my wrist tendonitis pain is much reduced, but not eliminated.

I just read the ice massage section of your blog and see that you now recommend ice massage 4 times a day in addition to the wrist protocol.

On 3/26/09 I posted a question to which you asked me several questions back which I answered in detail with no reply.

The question today is whether ice massage is the only thing I should add to the regimen I am following to finally eliminate the pain I have lived with for the last 18mos?

Finally, I would consider a telephone consultation if you felt it would hasten my recovery.

Please help. I know your advice is effective, but I think I need more or at least to know that I just need to keep doing what I am doing.

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Joshua Answers:

Hi there.

I'd like to say that I was to busy working on getting my DVDs selling to have time to respond. Which is very close to true, but truth be told, I edit every response a little bit, and my brain thought it was my response, and I've been waiting for you. Sorry.

Still, good. You're on day 8 and feeling a lot better but not perfect yet.

Good. Now you know the results you get from doing what the recipe says. Now you can adjust as necessary. More on that in a bit.

So, you have a lot more going on other than classic carpal tunnel.

You have the remains of a small tear in a ligament on the back of your wrist.

You have, essentially, muscles and tendon in your thumb pad that are chronically, acutely, too tight.

And you have all the tightness and such of a classic carpal tunnel dynamic, meaning a shrink wrapping of muscle and connective tissue in the forearms, which pulls and puts tension on everything that is attached to it.

I think it was you to which I suggested that you get The Carpal Tunnel Treatment That Works DVD since I don't have a wrist tendonitis DVD out yet.

I said that because it will do a lot of the work that you need done, and then I would give you a couple other things specifically for the tendonitis.

I'm about to say more but have a couple questions.

1. Now, after the 8 days, is it still severe pain to reach down and pick up the dog?

2. Does it still hurt to put your hand to your chest? That one doesn't make sense to me. Are you pressing in, or just resting it there? Does if feel like something is stretching just putting your hand to your chest?

Ok, so. You've done 8 days, and things are better. Meaning, a lot of the inflammation is out of your tissue, there is less chemical making you more sensitive to pain floating around. Your muscles are getting more circulation, the body is getting happier.



(Continued in PART 5)
Apr 02, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 5 Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

(Continued from PART 4)

And, imagine that the muscles in your thumb pad are SO TIGHT that the Ice Dipping hasn't been able to touch them. They sound like they are still in an acutely unhappy stage.

I know that 'unhappy' is a very technical term, but it makes a point.

So, you need something specific for that. And again, that's not within the direct realm of the dvd.

So. Massage into that thumb pad. 30 seconds every half hour, all day long. Imagine that it's a fully squeezed sponge wrapped tightly in plastic wrap.

You need to frequently, regularly, repeatedly, get in there and just rub it up. The cumulative effect over time will make all the difference.

I'm not going to explain a lot of the why, just do it and see.

You can also spend some time with an ice cube, massaging with it and forcing cold deep in.

Technically there's some tendonitis in the thumb there, and it sounds like there's an element of Tenosynovitis, by which I mean, Tenosynovitis is acutely painful, and takes serious diligence and patience to make the pain go away.

You can't really have Tenosynovitis in the thumb pad, but you can get SO irritated in there, that it achieves a state of EXTREME, STUBBORN UNHAPPINESS.

I don't know if that gets across what's in my head, but you have to be more stubborn than it is.

And while you're at it, ice massage that ligament too. Even if it's old, the way the body heals leaves a constant state of inflammation at the injury site, and scar tissue is fragile so it keeps reinjuring.

If you can ice massage the thumb pad and that ligament spot 4x/day for 5ish minutes each, that will make a big difference. Again, it's stubborn. You might not notice a difference for a few days.

Then again, having done the Healthy Wrist Protocol for 8 days, it might be just on the verge of turning the corner. Push it a little harder with repeated massage and ice massage.

You can continue the healthy wrist protocol, but drop the # of dips and the third activity, but keep the second going a bunch. That will make a difference for your neck and shoulders.

As far as a phone consult, I'd love to take your money, and we might add something valuable, but it's unlikely I'd tell you much different than I just did.

Do answer the earlier questions. I'm at a disadvantage because I can't check you out in person, but, ultimately, if you keep at it like you are, you'll get there.

I wish everything could be perfect in 7 days. In a lot of people, it can. It just all depends on what you have going on. And, the dvd is a tool. Learn to use it to it's fullest advantage, and it's worth millions.


Joshua Tucker, B.A., C.M.T.
The Tendonitis Expert
www.TendonitisExpert.com
Apr 02, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 6 - More Answers - Questions about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

Thank you for the detailed response. I will add thumb pad massage and ice massage as you directed.

1. Now, after the 8 days, is it still severe pain to reach down and pick up the dog?

The pain is not as severe when I pick up the dog. In general the pain on movement of the thumb and wrist is down but not gone.

2. Does it still hurt to put your hand to your chest? That one doesn't make sense to me. Are you pressing in, or just resting it there? Does if feel like something is stretching just putting your hand to your chest?

Yes, I still have pain when I put my palm to my chest. Yes, it feels like a painful stretch along the outside of my thumb down into my wrist. If it helps I get similar pain when I roll up my right sleeve to prep for ice dipping.

I will be dilligent about doing what you suggest and keep you posted.

Thanks.
Apr 05, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 7 Day4 Thumbpad Massage & Ice - Questions about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

Joshua, Today is Day-4 of the addition of thumbpad massage and ice massage 4x/day. I am trying to follow your instructions as provided.

The problem is I seem to be getting worse, not better. The source of the pain seems to be a tightness band around my wrist with most of the pain focused along the line where the palm meets the wrist. There is always a dull ache and then any motion of the hand that involves the wrist causes a stretch like pain that increases with intensity depending on how much wrist motion is involved. More twisting causes more pain.

When I was just doing the healthy wrist protocol I felt as the this pain was lessening. Now that I added massage it feels as if my wrist is less "happy", more inflamed, with less mobility.

One final note. When I first get up after sleeping (I am wearing no braces of any kind) I find my wrist to be most calm. This morning there was no intial pain sensation. However, as soon as my wrist starts moving again the pain returns and seems to increase during the day.

Hoping you still have some ideas.

Thank you.

----

Joshua Answers:

I gotta say, I wish I could get my hands on you, so I could directly see what is going on.

Here's my current over-email theory on the wrist pain you just described...

Your forearm muscles and hand/thumb muscles have been super tight for a good long while. This compresses your wrist joint.

Over time, connective tissue shrinks down, shrink wraps the area. Imagine plastic wrap wrapped tightly around your wrist. (This makes sense for the thumb pain you describe when putting your palm to your chest.)

You are now disrupting that pattern. As you said, now that you are doing massage and forcing some change, you may actually be making it 'unhappy'. This is a good thing as long as you are pushing the structure just right. Not too much, not too little. You have to find that level for yourself.

The ice massage was getting the inflammation pain out. Now that you are doing the thumb pad massage, that is adding a new disruptive factor.

Also, track down the muscle that feels like it is getting stretched when you put your palm to your chest.

My sense is is that is is severely tight/acutely inflamed. If you press into it I bet it will have a 'sharp' hurt feel to it, and probably tendonitis along the tendon to the thumb.

I hate to sound like the cliche doctor here, but keep doing what you are doing and see what happens. You have a lot going on in there from several different directions. The band around the wrist sounds like you're opening up constricted connective tissue.

Play around with stretching that open A LITTLE BIT AT A TIME. It's tough to describe how to do that. Play around with that, put a thumb at the joint and move the wrist back and forth to get a little pin-and-stretch action.

Keep ice dipping and massaging around. I bet you'll experience no benefit, no benefit, then all of a sudden LOTS of benefit as your body turns the corner.
Apr 05, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		PART 8 -- Keeping The Faith -- Question about your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

Thank-you Joshua.

I will try to follow the latest instructions and continue the massages.

A little more about the pain when I put my palm on my chest. First, if it wasn't clear the pain is caused when my palm is on my chest and my fingers are pointed to my chin. There is no pain when my palm is on my chest and my fingers point toward my right arm. When my palm is on my chest with fingers pointed to the chin the pain I feel goes down the outside of thumb and down into my arm on the same line. I just wanted to clarify.

In the mean time back to massaging and looking for the muscle involved in my forearm when I placed my hand in this position.

Thanks and more to follow.


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Joshua Answers:

Oh, that makes more sense.

Thumb flexor and/or extensor are super tight and inflamed and tenosynovitisy, so when you twist to point your fingers up, plus all the muscles and tissue around the wrist that has to move...

Yeah, that makes sense.

Include in your looking for A. the muscle that pulls your thumb to the side, and back, and B. the muscles that pull your wrist back and twist to the side.

Probably right around the wrist. Not the muscle so much as the mesh of connective tissue in there that is tight and packed with pain enhancing chemical.
Apr 10, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		Part - The Pain Is Disapating - Question About Your Healthy Wrist Protocol
by: Anonymous

Joshua, thank you so much for additional massage instruction and exercises. After 4 additional days of thumb pad massages, ice massages, and wrist tendon exercises the pain in my wrist and and thumb pad has taken dramatic turn for the better. That said some pain remain. Although I am optimistic that time and the continuation of your protocols will be successful.

I am pleased to be getting the use of left hand back.

More soon.

----

Joshua Answers

I'm glad. It seems that phone consultation was well worth it, yes?

"A dramatic turn for the better." I like the sound of that.

Like I said, it's just a matter of doing the RIGHT things to reverse whatever specific tendonitis related issue is going on.

Yours in particular was old, acute, and deeply entrenched. Even so, it can only hang on so long when the right activities are applied.

I'm proud of you for sticking with it so diligently. I'm not surprised you're getting results. And while it took a little longer than I would have expected, you really don't have any better options. And nothing else has worked, so I appreciate your trust in my suggestions.

Keep me updated.

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