16 Year Old With Wrist Pain From Intersection Syndrome

by Sandy
(Iowa)

My daughter has been diagnosed finally after 5 months with Intersection Syndrome in her wrists. We have been to physical therapists and several doctors before we received her diagnosis.


Pain came on suddenly in July. Pain is constant but hurts more when she does anything with her hands. We are just completing a round of laser therapy but have seen no improvement.

Just found your website. We had done the ice massage before but started today with the ice dipping.

Several questions:
1. Her wrists really hurt when we do the ice massage? Is this normal?
2. How many times a day can she ice dip?
3. She had been low on Vitamin D but she took the prescription that she was given. How much vitamin d should she take?
4. Anything else she should be doing?



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Joshua Answers:

Hi Sandy.

This response is a bit belated, what's your daughter's status now?

So before I answer your questions, let me say, that Intersection Syndrome is just a fancy and dangerous sounding label for something tenosynovitis of the radial wrist extensors.

Tendonitis can be painful and problematic for a variety of reasons.

See: What Is Tendonitis

Tenosynovitis is essentially made up of all the same variables, but due to a couple factors, is generally FAR more painful.

Sudden pain? No pain until use of the hands? Intense pain?

Yep. Tenosynovitis is no fun. No worries though, it's totally reversible.

Not with laser therapy though. Not with Rest. Not with Anti-inflammatory drugs like Ibuprofen. Not with Wrist splints and braces.

Not with Corticosteroid Injections.

Moving onto your questions.

1. Her wrists really hurt when we do the ice massage? Is this normal?

Normal is relative of course, but for Intersection Syndrome / Wrist Tenosynovitis, yes, it's absolutely normal.


2. How many times a day can she ice dip?

As many times as she wants to. The most I've ever heard of anybody reporting back to me is 70 dips
in a day.

Each dip causes benefit. The more, the better. Having said that, it's a cumulative effect, and it may take a while before you consciously feel a difference.


3. She had been low on Vitamin D but she took the prescription that she was given. How much vitamin d should she take?

Prescription Vitamin D has been proven by plenty of research to be worthless. It' brings up levels but doesn't provide results.

She should take Vitamin D3, not prescription Vit D which is Vit D2.

How much should she take? Vit D researchers recommend 5,000i.u.'s of VIt D3 per day as a -maintenance- dose, and that may or may not bring her actual levels up. Depending on her size, how much magnesium and fat she gets into her, etc.

See the Vit D pages at www.Easy-Immune-Health.com

And YOU should take vitamin D also. If for no other reason than adequate levels of Vit D reduce the incidence of breast cancer by 85%.

So I'll edit that statement to say, that YOU and your daughter and every woman you know should spend the $15/year to have your Vit D levels where they should be.


4. Anything else she should be doing?

Plenty, yes.

Give me an update of where she's at now, etc. And we'll go from there.





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Joshua Tucker, B.A., C.M.T.
The Tendonitis Expert
www.TendonitisExpert.com
















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Comments for 16 Year Old With Wrist Pain From Intersection Syndrome

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Feb 23, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Update on my daughter
by: Sandy

Thanks so much for your help! We did the ice dipping for about 2 weeks but saw no effects. We have started again.

Basically no change since I originally sent you an email. Both hands still hurt even when she is not doing anything with them. when she does things with her hands, they hurt more.

We have tried a bunch of things including some anti inflammatory items from our local natural health store. She gets a massage at least once a week. Originally that helped a little but it has had no more improvement.

She is taking a 5000 D3 vitamin that we got from the health food store. Also she is taking vitamin C.

When we do the ice dipping, if she doesn't have a lot of time (like before school), can she just do a couple of times?

Like I said, we are staring the ice dipping again. Maybe we just gave up too soon.

Any other ideas?? Quite frankly this has been going on since July and we are at our wits end. Willing to try anything!!!

Thanks for your help and your website! Best on the internet!


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Sandy.

1. So that we're on the same page, have you gotten one of my ebooks or DVD's?

2. When she's ice dipping, how many times a day is she/was she dipping?

3. Is she taking any Magnesium?

4. Give me a description of your daughter. Thin/lean/tall/short/frail/solid etc.

5. If she iced enough for 2 weeks and got NO benefit at all, that's a useful clue. Describe the exact benefit or lack thereof she got from ice dipping, and, how many dips was that?
Feb 25, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Follow Up to Questions
by: Anonymous

Thanks so much for answering back Here are the answers to your questions.

1. So that we're on the same page, have you gotten one of my ebooks or DVD's? --- No, I have not gotten the ebook or dvd's. Is there one that you would recommend??

2. When she's ice dipping, how many times a day is she/was she dipping? --- She was ice dipping once a day for 10 times within a hour during the week and twice (10 times,2 hours) on weekends. We were following each ice dip with a dip in warm water. sometimes we put epsom salts in the warm water. We also did seperate warm water baths with epsom salts. These were arms only. Maybe we left her arms in the warm water too long??

3. Is she taking any Magnesium? She was taking Magnesium oxide bit we stopped because it didn't do anything.

4. Give me a description of your daughter. Thin/lean/tall/short/frail/solid etc.
She used to be thinner but has gained some weight in the last year or so. Not overweight but not as skinny as she used to be. She is about 5'6' and weighs about 138.

5. If she iced enough for 2 weeks and got NO benefit at all, that's a useful clue. Describe the exact benefit or lack thereof she got from ice dipping, and, how many dips was that?--- I talked about that in question 2. She didn't really feel any different at all. The ice dipping makes her hands hurt more until they warm up again.

A few more interesting facts:
- when she holds her hands up in the air, she gets pins and needles in under a minute. I know this means bad circulation but don't know what to do about it
- she stopped drinking milk about 1 year ago because we found out she had a sensativity to it. She does take calcuim supplement (sometimes)
- She has been low on Vitamin D and iron before. she was low when she was checked after pain started.
- she has had constipation problems in the past
but not at this immediate time
- The epsom salts made her arms feel tingly ( not like alseep tingly) - maybe this is normal

Thanks again for any help!!!
Feb 27, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Follow Up to Questions - 16 Year Old With Wrist Pain From Intersection Syndrome
by: Anonymous

Hi Joshua.

Thanks for your response! Here are the answers to your questions.

1. So that we're on the same page, have you gotten one of my ebooks or DVD's?

No, I haven't gotten an ebook or dvd. Would that be helpful? Is so which one should I get?

2. When she's ice dipping, how many times a day is she/was she dipping?

We were ice dipping the 10 times in 2 hours - once a day during the week. Then twice a day on weekends. We did follow the ice dip with warm water dip. Maybe we left it in the warm water too long. Sometimes we used epson salts in the water. Should we be following the cold water with warm water??

3. Is she taking any Magnesium?

She was taking magnesuim oxide but we stopped. Also we did some arm dipping in epsom salts. Maybe we didn't do it long enough or maybe she should take epson salt baths???

4. Give me a description of your daughter. Thin/lean/tall/short/frail/solid etc.

She is about 5"6 and weighs around 140. She has gained some weight since this started because it has been hard for her to exercise. Though she did gain some weight before this started.

5. If she iced enough for 2 weeks and got NO benefit at all, that's a useful clue. Describe the exact benefit or lack thereof she got from ice dipping, and, how many dips was that?

I answered the dipping part in question2. YEah, we really saw no benifit. It didn't do anything for the pain. She says that the ice dipping is really painful.


Some other things:
- If she hold her hands in the air, she gets pins and needles really quickly. Like 30 seconds.
-She does get cold easily and in the winter gets cold hands.
- she has bumped her elbow alot
- she is sensitive to dairy so she doesn't have dairy anymore.


Just don't know what to do anymore.
Thanks for any help!
Feb 27, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Joshua Responds - Sandy - 16 Year Old With Wrist Pain From Intersection Syndrome
by: The Tendonitis Expert

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Joshua Comments:

1. I highly suggest the Reversing Wrist Tendonitis ebook. But as I kept reading, I'm changing that recommendation. See below.

2. Following cold with hot is just fine.

3. Epsom salt baths, absolutely. Take magnesium, definitely. But NOT magnesium oxide, it's pretty worthless.

4. Ok.

5. What exactly does 'ice dipping is really painful' mean?


If she gets pins and needles from arms over head, then she has constriction up at the front of the neck/shoulder. That is likely a big player in her wrist issues. So I'm changing my recommendation to The Carpal Tunnel Treatment That Works . It is essentially the Reversing Wrist Tendonitis ebook plus information on opening up the neck (which is the cause of a lot of hand/wrist symptoms).

- Either she's naturally inclined to have poor circulation/poor ability to deal with the stress of cold, or she's short on B vitamins (and magnesium, and Vitamin D, etc). That's a larger conversation there. But her body isn't dealing with stress very well, and nutrition is the first place to look there.

- There's no reason to drink processed, pastuerized milk, so her not drinking it is a good thing. I'm curious how she would do with raw milk, which is actually a real, healthy food (that usually doesn't bother people with lactose intolerance).

It's also a clue that she should try going off of ALL gluten for 2 months, and see how she feels.

See: Gluten Intolerance
Aug 03, 2012
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		help, hit a rock with golf club, hurt my wrist
by: Anonymous

Hey! i apologize for my poor typing(abbreviations) as my hand hurts rly bad. I am having similar problems! im an 18 yr old male and my life is bodybuilding and golf. 4 mnths ago i hurt my wrist when i hit a buried rock during my golf swing (deceleration injury). if you know about golf i was hitting a flop shot(open clubface)

the first doc jumped to a broken hamate bc thats the most common golf injury and put me in a cast and wrist splint for 2 mnths.no better. the second doc didnt know the prroblem so had me go blindly to a PT. no better

yestrday i went to a third doc and he said my problem was w/ my epl tendon. i got an mri and its not torn so he thinks its intersection syndrome. he gave me a thumb-spica splint and wants me taking aleve for 6 wks when ill see him next.

do you have any advice? im desperate. i need my hand. i cant even hold a water bottle w/o intense pain. i have no strength in my hand/wrist either. i rly want to get back to my hobbies but more importantly a functioning life. its my hand and i need it for my career(i got a special acceptance to dental school out of hs)

im desperate!


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Joshua Comments:

Hi RockGolfer.

First, learn How To Reduce Inflammation.

Also, understand the Pain Causing Dynamic
Apr 15, 2014
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		13 yo tennis player been having pain for 1 1/2 years
by: Timtam from Bangkok

Hello, my daughter is 13 years old and has been having pain in her wrist for almost 2 years.

First, some history, she first injured her wrist about a 1 1/2 ago when she was pushed of a log onto concrete and tried to break her fall and put all her weight on her right hand.

There was instant pain and swelling but she continued to ignore for the rest of the day, downplaying the pain. The next day she played in a tennis tournament and had to pull out due to the injury.

A couple days later we went to the doctor and got a x-ray which showed nothing and the doctor diagnosed it a strain and issued 2 weeks of immobilization and ice, but no splint.

After 2 weeks she continued practice again and even though it hurt didn't tell me!

There was often many loud clicking noises when she moved it, but the pain was only on the dorsal side and was in that whole part of the wrist.Less then a month from the injury and still experiencing pain she went to a tennis tournament overseas and still had intense pain when moving the wrist.

After a few weeks from that tournament the pain faded but throughout the whole year would come back for periods of 1-5 days but would then disappear again. During these periods my daughter would play through the pain unknown to me and would squeeze a soft tennis ball which she said eases the pain sometimes.

Now a year later she injured it once again when in a tennis match she changed to a heavier racket and began experiencing pain and intense swelling in her wrist and dorsal side of the hand in over the carpal bones. We have been to 2 doctors who have diagnosed it as tendonitis and have issued 2 weeks rest, a removable wrist brace, and anti-inflammatory medicine.

After 2 weeks she still experiences mild pain when moving her wrist up while spreading the finger, but the pain is from the knuckles to the wrist. The swelling is completely gone, and she wants to start training again(she trains more than 5 hours per day).

Do you think it's ok to start training again? I don't want to make the same mistake again twice.


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Timtam.

Sorry, I just found this so it's a long delayed response.

1. Chances are, she did start practicing/playing again, and then things did flare up again.

3. It -could- be tendonitis like the doctor said, but I doubt it. I bet the fall/landing did some kind of damage, either a bone bruise in the joint, or a ligament or cartilage tear (which would not show up on an xray.

4. Your daughter needs to do everything for wrist tendonitis that I suggest (ice dipping, nutrition, self massage, see the Reversing Wrist Tendonitis ebook) and then see what happens.

It could be that just ice dipping alone could keep her playing with little to no pain. But if she has an actual rip/tear injury, that's different than if she is quick to turn to pain and inflammation because the brain -thinks- there's an injury there when there actually isn't.
Sep 24, 2014
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Hamate fracture they removed the bone can't golf
by: Derek Benson

I had a hamate fracture and they removed the bone.. That was in December of last year.. I am a pga pro so this not being able to play golf is no good.

I've been to doctors got shots been to pt a hundred times and nothing has gotten me to swinging again.. Everyone is calling it tendioidious so I am believing them but the pain is not going away..

Should I just expect that it never will or is something I'm missing.. Please advise


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Joshua Comments:

Hi Derek.

You didn't leave your email or click the notifications box, so I hope you find this.

(If anybody can find/get a hold of Derek and let him know, that would be great.)

They removed your entire hamate bone because of a fracture?????? Holy crap. That's mind boggling. That's sort of like chopping your foot off because you stepped on a nail.

Your function will never be the same, but you can -probably- get pain free and back to a good golf game. You have to get rid of all inflammation and keep it away, and the overall structure has to adjust, and we'll hope that they didn't leave something 'bad' in there, in the sense of the remaining bones rubbing on each other too much, etc.

Something is missing, obviously, but no, don't expect that it will never get better.

Also, did you mean tendonitis, tenosynovitis, tendonosis, or...

And who is saying that's what it is (when it's obviously the predictable result of a bone being removed).


If you find this let's talk more.



See related: Continuing Wrist Pain After Golfing And Now Stiff Fingers

See related: Wrist Tenosynovitis And Complications From DeQuervain Release
Apr 20, 2015
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Rowing Pains
by: eower123

I am a 17 yr old rower

i have been experiencing what i assume is intersection syndrome in my feathering hand for around two weeks. I know it is this as opposed to du quervians tendonitis because of the location of the pain/swelling/creaking.

I still have around a month left in my season and stopping really is not an option.

My coach is pretty understanding of my forearm pain.

My tendons are making a crunching/rubbing sound and feeling when my wrist moves.

I have been icing my arm and wrist approximately once an hour or so every day, have been taking ibuprofen, and wearing an ace bandage.

I continually get sharp pains in my forearm and wrist throughout the day.

Am i following the correct course of action?

What should i do differently?


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Joshua Comments:

Hi 17Rower.

Are you using ice packs, or are you ice dipping as per the 'How To Reduce Inflammation' link in this thread?

Wrist splints and braces and wraps aren't a fix in any way, shape, or form.

They may be helpful to get you through a bout of exercise, but other than that....

Same with Anti-inflammatory drugs like Ibuprofen...they're good to get you through the day but are not a long term option, nor a fix.


The question is WHY do you have the symptoms you have.

See the 'Pain Causing Dynamic' link in this thread.

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